Magic! A spellbinding Rivers of London TV adaptation might finally be in the offing

Ben Aaronovitch is explaining his "gibbon theory of management" gleaned from nearly 15 years of trying to get his bestselling Rivers of London novels adapted for TV. From what I understand, it is something to do with the three types of characters populating the cultural industries: the creators, the deal makers and, er, the gibbons!

"It's gibbons because I always imagine them hooting at each other and showing their bums," he chuckles. "They're the kind of people who insist on a change to a plot idea - not because it's any good but because they feel they should make their mark. Gibbons only care about advancing themselves up the corporate ladder, making a noise and stroking their own egos. The president of the United States is essentially a gibbon. And the more money involved in a project, the more gibbons!

"What's more, you can end up with what I call the 'adverse gibbon ratio', where suddenly you have more gibbons than anybody else and nothing ever gets made."

It's important to pause here and note that this flight of fancy doesn't refer to anyone in particular. Ben's previous collaborators having been Hot Fuzz stars Simon Pegg and Nick Frost (Covid and the tragic death of their company CEO put the kibosh on that project), while he is currently working with, among others, the production house behind Mick Herron's brilliant Apple TV+ Slow Horses adaptation. And with Sky Studios also on board, fans may finally have a spellbinding new drama series to look forward to - based on the author's gloriously genre-bending police procedurals that mix the supernatural with old-fashioned murder mysteries.

Published in 2011, Rivers Of London introduced Peter Grant, a rookie copper recruited by Detective Chief Inspector Thomas Nightingale into a small and secretive branch of the police that deals with magic, as the capital's first trainee wizard in 70 years.

An early critic described the debut as what would happen if "Harry Potter grew up and joined the Met". It marked the beginning of a series that has sold more than five million copies. Ben, 61, calls it "Gandalf meets The Sweeney".

Since then there have been nine more books, including the latest, Stone & Sky, of which more shortly, five novellas, graphic novels and even a table top role-playing game. And don't forget the talking foxes that think they're spies! Today Ben tells me, fingers firmly crossed: "I think it's more likely to happen this time but I've essentially been under option for 15 years, so you know... I find it very stressful. I'm 61 now and my appetite for bull**** is no longer as strong as it was and neither is my tolerance for endless meetings. And there are inevitably lots of them.

"People will come in with the best intentions in the world. They want to sit down and talk to you..." He tails off again, before adding: "We're working with some serious people, we're not f****** about, but still..." It would certainly be a nice twist; the series was originally conceived as a TV drama - working title "Magic Cops" - before the frustrations of the small screen saw Ben adapt his idea into book form.

Like his hero Terry Pratchett, the former Doctor Who scriptwriter and Waterstones bookseller delights in upending literary conventions and writes gloriously warm, funny and satisfying books. An enthusiastic following, healthy book sales and publication in 14 languages allowed him to give up the day job selling other people's books. "Writing is not work, every morning I wake up and go, 'Suckers!'," he jokes.

With a dry sense of humour, a magpie eye for odd details and an obsessive interest in the history, geography and architecture of the capital, his quirkiness might be something to do with hisleft-field (and Left-wing) childhood in North London, the son of Communist academic and intellectual Sam Aaronovitch.

"One of the things about being in London is, if you are born and raised here, everyone is slightly amazed," he smiles. "People assume you're from Hertfordshire, or Peterborough. People always think you're from somewhere else - especially if you're living in the area you grew up in, which is quite difficult to do."

A public transport fanatic, Ben admits to wearing headphones while travelling on buses so he can covertly listen to people chatting away for ideas. Yet for a series so deeply rooted in the capital, Rivers of London has travelled pretty well. "You've got to get out occasionally. I'm not one of those people who doesn't leave London - I just always go back."

Which brings us to Stone & Sky, which is set in Aberdeen, the nation's former - and perhaps future, depending on net zero - oil capital. So what's the elevator pitch? "The elevator pitch is that things are different north of the border," Ben sighs - pithy summaries of his books not being especially easy.

But he does reveal he was influenced by fellow crime writer Stuart MacBride, whose DI Logan McRae novels are set in theGranite City. "They're grim. It's granite noir but it's funny granite noir - like Ian Rankin with jokes!" says Ben. "And Stuart describes Aberdeen so brilliantly. Basically, you have this ancient city made out of stone, upon which a ton of money has been dropped. I did a lot of visits. They got to the point where the hotel got to know me by sight."

Anyway, Stone & Sky sees Peter and his family - he is in a long-term relationship with Beverley Brook, goddess of the self-same river, with whom he has twin daughters - visiting the far north for a break. Of course, when the bodies start dropping, and mystical beasts make their appearance, it soon becomes clear that crime doesn't take a day off. Throw in Peter's boss, DCI Nightingale, his young protege Abigail and the talking foxes, and you're cooking with gas. It's a brilliant addition to the Aaronovitch universe.

But where did those highly entertaining talking foxes come from? And isn't he simply trolling those who believe magic and crime are two very different genres and never the twain should meet?

"That's not how I think about it," says Ben. "The way I think about it is just like, 'Oh, that's a good idea, let's put that in'. But they sneaked up on me, the foxes. This happens to me a lot. I introduce a character or a concept just for one line or two. And the next thing I know, they're taking over.

"So in book three - Whispers Under Ground - I needed a good pay-off. So Abigail says, 'A fox came up and told me we were on the wrong side of the river'. And there we are.

"But before I knew it I started thinking, 'Well, why are they talking foxes?'. So I had to work it out. And then I thought, 'Wouldn't it be funny if they all thought they were spies?'. You see them at night; you're walking down the street, and they just look at you. So I went, 'OK, foxes are spies'."

Ben is currently writing a short story to help mark the bicentenary of London Zoo in 2028 and, yes, it will feature foxes, with another Rivers of London novel on the horizon too. Meanwhile, the archetypal Londoner is currently off on his travels again, proving he does leave the capital occasionally as he promotes his new book.

Later this week, he'll be at the Theakston Old Peculier Crime Writing Festival in the North Yorkshire spa town of Harrogate.where the Daily and Sunday Express is media partner for its Crime Novel of the Year award.

"I love Harrogate, it's the poshest town I've ever been to," he says. "The first time I went, there were three windows full of posh, high-end bathroom stuff. And I thought, 'Wow, that's a big bathroom shop'. It was three separate bathroom stores!"

As for his own life, success has paid off his mortgage. What's next apart from, touch wood, a successful TV series? "My life is all about replacing the maximum amount of things I have to do that I don't want to do," he admits. "I have a cleaner, I have a personal trainer, I have a PA and I have a gardener.

"The only thing I don't like is that I actually have to exercise myself - now if I could find something to do it for me..."

And with a witticism worthy of his hero Sir Terry Pratchett, he's off to catch the bus home - and perhaps pick up some more ideas.

• Stone & Sky by Ben Aaronovitch (Orion, £20) is out now in hardback, eBook and audio. Visit harrogateinternationalfestivals.com for tickets and information